The eye-opening entertainment of “Boys State” concerns a microcosm of the American political system: put a bunch of political science buffs in the same summer camp, and let them create their own government for a week, including electing all of their own officials. What bills would they want to pass? What tactics would they use in their campaigns for roles like governor? How much would their actions be inspired by what they see in Washington, D.C. every day? Filmed in Texas’ version of the popular program (which has alumni like Dick Cheney, Garth Brooks, and罗杰艾伯特兴发), the series follows charismatic kids like Robert, Steven, Rene, and Ben, all who have different goals for this week of summer camp. Their individual journeys, like mini political coming-of-age stories, play out in fascinating, and often very funny ways.
Roger兴发Ebert.comspoke with McBaine and Moss about the making of the film, casting the right people, the hope they felt from their week at Boys State, and more.
Given that you had cameras follow around certain boys more than others, was there any worry from the Boys State people about having the presence of cameras influencing the campaigns?
AMANDA MCBAINE：他们担心许多事情。我不认为这是一个他们特别提到。我想一如既往地做一部这样的电影可以是信仰的飞跃。让我这样说吧：当我们发现电影城市组织或那群家伙谁是我们的领导那里的粗剪，他们喜欢它。此后的导演之一，加里说，“我当时紧张得像是一屋子的摇椅的猫之前，我看到这个粗剪。”You never know, you have to trust that we’re going to tell an accurate story, and that we’re not coming into it with any kind of agenda, and I think that’s something that had happened for them in the past, because they’ve been covered in the news in negative press about the program, but also they’ve never worked with documentary filmmakers before.
JESSE MOSS: If you’re asking abut the influence we had on the process, of course we always think about that as documentary filmmakers. I never remove myself from the equation, in fact that relationship of subject to camera, subject to filmmaker is sort of at the heart of documentary. It’s not objective either, we’re subjective, we make subjective decisions, we have politics. All of that influences the choices we make and also the choices of the subject, and it has an effect on events. It’s hard to parse what that effect is.
But what Steven has to say, is that first of all there’s a lot going on, and [the boys] were more concerned with the electoral process and the thousand boys around them in the chaos of the environment. They sort of quickly forgot about us. Steven says that the camera’s presence didn’t really help him get signatures or get on the ballot. He still had to struggle, and Robert, of course, had no trouble.
A boy named Eddy enters the story later, and you get a playful sense that you guys had the right impulse on a few kids, but maybe you missed Eddy. How do you know who to focus on in that regard? Were you surprised Eddy took over？
JM: We actually interviewed Eddy once it was clear that he was an ascendant candidate. And we thought a lot about this--we always felt like Eddy was more of an extension of Ben as a character. And so I think, our attention was in the right place. Ben was, as you can see, the master strategist of the Federalist Party’s victory. And Eddy was, he’s talented and the boys liked him, but we were less drawn to him as a character in this story. I think he plays the right role, I love what Ben says about him: “He knows his facts, or at least he presents like he knows his facts.”
It can’t be, right?
AM: Yeah, I think casting a verité film is always a big challenge.
JM：这是寻找他们感兴趣的无限复杂的;魅力。在这种情况下，他们都是聪明的，充满激情和抱负。这是我们的一个必要前提。在多样化他们的背景，社会经济和政治。但我认为他们有一种无形的X因素。我们已经作出维泰电影超过20年，“该Overnighters”，“Jim牧师。”你要找的人......就像罗伯特，你感觉他们有一种内心的风暴是并不总是很清楚你和它罗伯特变得清晰和过程的叙述。与史蒂芬，他的心脏和他的老灵魂岬感动了我们。我们不知道他是一个出色的候选人，我们只知道他是明智超越他的年龄。 It’s hard, we’ve struggled to answer that question of casting this film, because the answer eludes us, even. It’s just, you know it when you see it.
In the process of making it, how much can you rely on a day-by-day plan? How much of it is truly chasing it moment by moment?
AM : This film was a very different animal than other films we’ve made, because usually it’s Jesse as a one-man-band, following one or a small group of people over a long period of time. This is the opposite; we had a crew of 28 people and we needed to capture a movie within a week. There was a lot of preproduction leading up to that, a lot of like a fiction film. We cast most of the film, we found after a long time, Robert, Ben, and Steven, so we knew we would have our main characters and we were going to follow them through every second of their experience. And then we needed that very solid crew so we put together what we felt was going to be the people who could help us through it. But with all of that, the amount of chaos we faced was unlike a fiction film set, in the sense that it’s not … there’s three or four set pieces happening at any given time, and we do not know how long, or who is going to be there, or what is going to happen.
JM: I think there might be a tendency to imagine that the camera had more of an influence because we did get very fundamentally lucky with the choices we made with the characters with the intersection of their trajectories. That’s verité filmmaking and why it’s so hard to finance, because you don’t know where it’s going to go, and you push all your chips onto the table. Usually with verité there’s no chips because no one will give you any to play with. But this is an unusual moment in documentary, where Concordia was willing to take that plunge with us, and to allow us to scale-up a 28-person crew and bring on six or seven DPs, plus me. That allows you to take a bigger swing, and that’s exciting. I think we swung and we got lucky. There’s skill too, I won’t divorce that, but it’s hard to disentangle.
AM: I think it’s lucky to have found not just one but four people who really just constantly fascinated us. You could follow any one of them through the program and I think it still would have been interesting, but to have four in the range of everything they represent and feel, is one of the magical things about the movie. And then they come to head-to-head, that’s the second piece of storytelling magic.
How many kids are mic’d at one time?
JM: We only really mic’d our main characters. And in the climactic confrontation there might have been four lavalier mics in a room. It was a nightmare, so I’ll say that. We had to learn the hard way that we had not done as much thinking and planning with audio as we had with camera. We had assumed that the DPs, who were pretty much one-man-band style, would just lav their subjects. But we actually realized that we needed sound recordists, because the room dynamics were challenging. We were hiring on the fly in Austin, like if you were a body who had ever held a boom, we probably hired you. We brought in Mark Roy who is exceptional as a verité sound guy, and there’s not many of them, like Mark Petersen in Austin. But we needed more, and then we had to act. The post-production on the film was very complicated with the multi-camera. We had soundboard feeds, and we had lavs, and we had booms.
Even with all of your experience, this sounds like a blockbuster in comparison in terms of size crew. How do you keep your composure as creatives? How do you find that clarity to work in the high stakes shoot?
AM: It’s a fugue state. This is not the first film we’ve ever made, and I’m glad it wasn’t because I think it was hard to stay in the zone. But on the other hand … we always want to be scared of what we’re working on to keep us moving forward creatively. I think this was one of those moments.
JM: I think it’s important, for me particularly, to surrender my ego a little bit. We brought in this team of cinematographers who were brilliant in their own right. And I’m used to verité where I shoot every frame in the film. On “The Overnighters,” there was never a crew, I shot 100% of that movie. And we couldn’t make this movie that way, and to surrender to Torsten Thielow andWolfgang Heldand Claudia Raschke andMartina Radwan和帕特里克布鲁斯南和常春藤邱，是自我放弃一点点，和信任。我们设定的参数对他们来说，我们说，“这是摄像头，这是镜头，这是F-停止，但随后它真的给你，并与主题的关系。我们只有两个人，我们有四个主角，而我们不能一下子所有的地方“。我不认为我们曾经像，外小说集，我不认为我们曾经策划这样的事情，我认为这是美好的，当你有一个团队和你信任的人。
That sense of these different perspectives and relationships, would that influence how you put it all together?
JM: Part of hiring these people is that they’ve done so much of it that they’re so good at it, and they have instincts. But there’s a little armchair quarterbacking.
Do you feel a certain kind of control with "Boys State" going to wider audience immediately, via AppleTV?
JM：我认为引入关于政治电影成为一个非常带电政治时刻给出一个暂停。这就是为什么我们的国产电影。We wanted to engage with our country’s political paralysis in a way that felt fresh to us, and we hope that an audience would come to it and see the experience of teenage boys in Texas and their politics, something to be reflected back on our national politics. I think people are looking for a kind of ideological certainty and reassurance, and yet we know we’re at a threshold moment where we need to kind of break open the paradigm, it’s breaking open in front of us in some very unhealthy ways but also hopefully some positive ways.
如果这只是一个经历,一个标准的机会ents and their teenage children to watch a movie ... speaking for myself, there’s a lot to the national political conversation that I simply can’t engage with. I have to choose very carefully, yet I still want to engage and understand and think about where we’re at. I hope that the film can find that sweet spot.
JM: In compromise. People ask, 'Does the film make you hopeful?' And the film engenders complicated feelings in most people. But for us, [its] mostly hopeful, in that these kids throw themselves into the process, and present themselves as great examples of leadership or integrity. That this group of kind of crazy, anarchic,蝇王十几岁的男孩也可能是聪明的，并且走到一起，在显著问题达成一致，是对我们大家非常重要的。这是有希望的。